Friday, March 24, 2006

Die Adobe, Die!

Surfing the web is fun. Except when you happen to land upon idiotic geeks from hell, mumbling their inconsistent and ignorant drivel. Case in point? An Adobe lead developer posted in his blog about the difficulties that made Adobe delay a Universal Binary release for Photoshop. This had the geek crowd gathered faster than a pint of blood gathers sharks in the pacific. Here are some of their "comments" and opinions on

It seems adobe wasn't listening when apple "strongly" suggested starting to migrate to xcode.

And why should they?

A company should be able to use whatever IDE makes their programmers more productive. The programmer even states that Adobe tried migrating to Xcode, but found it wasn't up to the task.

Not for big code? you mean like Doom 3 and all the other massive 3D games out? Logic? The Final Cut Studio Suite which is due out this month? And should we not for get Mathamatica which is photoshop for the math world.

Ignorant (and idiot, to top it). 3D games codebases aren't "massive". The releases are large because of textures, sound and stuff. As for FCP and Logic:

a) They are Apple apps, so they knew about the transition MONTHS before Adobe.
b) They are not currently cross platform. They only had to be available for the Mac.
c) Even with all these advantages, the UB versions still took time to develop. FCP is
*due* out this month.

While I appreciate Adobe's attempt to open up a clear and honest discussion between users and developers, I can't help but feel that (in spite of all the perfectly valid issues brought up in the blog) Adobe just can't be bothered to go the extra mile for their customers. Yes, we know there are difficult technological issues. Yes, we know that waiting until CS3 is the easiest route. Still, I don't pay a premium for Adobe software to be treated like a second class citizen.

How are you treated as a second class citizen? Do you think that buying a version of an app entitles you to have it available PRONTO to whatever platform/architecture/OS you might make the transition to?

Sure it is. Adobe writes OS/X software. OS/X NOW runs on Intel chips. It's like if Apple started using "G6" chips and Adobe failed to support them. There would be rioting in the streets from all the Adobe customers.

Adobe has two choices: Get out of the Mac software business, or else tow the line. Half-assing it really helps no one. "I'll get to it when I get to it" only serves to hurt themselves and their customers. It's not like Apple didn't tell them. Hell, Apple has had working Intel OS/X since the very first release. You don't think Adobe has seen these systems? Could it not have had a contingency plan for if/when an Intel chip got used?

First, if Adobe "gets out of the Mac software business", Apple is screwed dead.

A "contingency plan for if/when an Intel chip got used"? You sure know how to run a company.

The ironic part is that there is ALREADY an intel version of Photoshop. They should have been the FIRST company to be ready when the big switch took place. Any cross-platform software company should have a software engineering system that can handle this kind of thing with ease. I could see if they were Mac-only. This is just plain embarassing for Adobe.

No, it's plain embarassing for you. Next?

They really have no excuse. So XCode wasn't up to the task. That's debatable. So what. It's not the only way to compile a program on a Mac. The Auto* group of tools run from a command line and the gcc compiler is the same compiler that XCode uses and is more than up to the task. The project files (config.* and makefiles) are all text based and so are text mergeable. You can run them over a network and use any source code control system you want.

The Auto* tools?!!! You are a dork, go get a girlfriend. Also, you could use some clearasil.

The Mathematica people converted their software in a weekend! With no previous warning even! They flew to Cupertino with an external hard drive on a Friday and had working code on Monday. Are you saying that Adobe couldn't get the same support? And Mathematica is a REALLY old code base too. If XCode could handle that then Adobe is just trying to blow smoke up our collective rear-ends.

Mathematica is based on a virtual machine. It's a different case altogether.

Photoshop is composed of hundreds of compile targets. They just need to compile their one little plugin or framework or dylib or dll or whatever. The real compile can be done using command line tools overnight and pushed out every morning.

The quest for the moron king of internet comments is now officially over.

Apple has been pushing XCode for almost 3 years.
In three years, Adobe couldn't find time or hire one more program er to move it all into XCode?!?!?! --- I don't buy it at all

Then again, you don't buy anything. You are a spotty geek living with your parents.

You need to blame the people that decided to sit on their hands and wait. If they needed more support from Apple, why are we only hearing about this NOW? It's not like it would stay a secret. This is coming out of left field for everybody. Adobe is trying to rewrite history with a little blog-based spin doctoring. The truth is that they made a business decision (not a technical one) to not support Intel until CS3. Why is a matter of debate but it had NOTHING to do with technical impossibilities.

It ain't April first yet, still the fools are here with their little tin foil hats.

If the tools apple gives to one of it's biggest people aren't enough, it's thier job to come to apple and tell them that. This is the absolute first time I've ever heard that (And this sort of info leaks very easily) excuse. If it's true, they should have gone to apple two years ago and said "This isn't enough". Apple could have responded. But no, they decide to slog it, and customers are the ones getting hurt.

Noone is getting hurt but reason. They *TOLD* Apple. Apple receives feedback from many companies. It's not as if Apple can fix XCode overnight, either. It took five+ years to get to XCode 2.0.

A lot of people seem to be missing the subtext here. For more years than I can remember, most third-party Mac apps have been made in Metroworks Codewarrior. It is a great development environment, and many people have said that it equals, if not exceeds MS's Visual Studio in some aspects. The real problem here is that with the move to Intel, Apple is now REQUIRING people to develop EXCLUSIVELY in their substandard proprietary development environment if they want to get native speed. This is going to cause a lot of problems for a lot of developers. I know quite a few Mac software developers who have been using Codewarrior for over a decade. They aren't going to be happy, nor quick, to throw away a decade of code just because Apple has decided to screw over Metroworks, and cut them out of the development market.

Hurrah! The voice of reason!

The whole point of THIS topic was (and is) about Adobe and the fact that they're dragging on providing Unibin versions of their applications.

Myself, I could care less. I haven't used bloated Adobe crap for years.

Which reminds us the "bloated rule": anyone who uses the word "bloated" to describe software is, more often than not, a terminal idiot.

What, Adobe can't write a Makefile ?

You don't have to use Xcode to generate Universal Binaries, all the tools are available on the command line. Xcode is just a front end for common Unix tools like gcc, make, ld, etc.

This blog post wreaks of politics.

Another idiot who thinks he knows all there is to know about professional software development just because he can compile xclock.

What I find sad about this is that Mr. Byer goes way back with the NeXT based technologies, the old fat (now universal) binaries idea is not new to him nor how to generate them and put them together. He *should* be an "old pro" at this kind of thing, but instead plays the n00b blaming Xcode. I am very disappointed.

You are also very stupid. RTFA, will you? He even states why this is different than the Fat Binaries case.

Ok. Get you tinfoil hats out. I've got a theory as to why they decided to wait.

Scenario #1:
They release a Universal version of CS2 now, there would be a massive switch over to intel mac's. They would sell a relatively cheap crossgrade license (the going rate is around $50) and anyone who is serious about CS2 would switch. In a year's time, when CS3 rolls out, there's no great hurry to upgrade because, CS2 does most if not all that people want/need.

Scenario #2:
They wait and release Universal CS3. It's customers keep using CS2 and they ALL buy CS3 (for a lot more than a crossgrade license). They now have all their customers on their new codebase, they made more money, and the buzz surrounding the release can be hyped independently of the Intel Mac. They don't have to share the spotlight. They don't need to worry about customers switching because they don't REALLY have any competition anymore. And if anyone starts wondering what's taking so long, they can just blame the immature tools.

If you were Adobe, with a captive customer base and two ways of squeezing them for money, which scenario would you choose?

Tin foil hat territory. Armchair programmer turned armchair CEO.

Move along, nothing to see here.


Blogger Oscar Papel said...

Wow. It must be really easy for you to debate with yourself on your own blog instead of actually debating with another human being.

And quite a debate it is, too! Someone posts valid arguments and your retort is "stop living in your mom's basement, you pimply faced geek".

Bravo. You must be a Rhodes Scholar. When you are ready to actually discuss something, why not head over to the forum and actually argue your point instead of sitting on the sidelines and making sophomoric one-liners.

11:46 AM  
Blogger Teh Comment said...

Welcome to the magical world of the World Wide Web! Using an advanced technology called HyperText, people can comment on other texts located on different systems by just providing links from one text to the other.

It's pretty high-tech stuff.

12:36 PM  
Blogger Comment Gator said...

When you are ready to actually discuss something, why not head over to the forum and actually argue your point instead of sitting on the sidelines and making sophomoric one-liners.

When there is something worth discussing, I will come.

At the moment there are only "opinions" to be mocked. Which is what I do.

1:28 PM  
Blogger Comment Gator said...

instead of sitting on the sidelines and making sophomoric one-liners.

Also making sophomoric one-liners is my job. After all, this is Comment Gator, damnit!

1:36 PM  
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